Continuing from Mental Powera #magic #psionics


mgaines547
 

So continuing on from my comments on the article Mental Powers:

I found the definition of spiritism and another website:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Spiritism.html

https://edenstree.weebly.com/the-garden/category/the-psychic-and-the-supernatural-series

My only concern is the supposed connection with the mental powers and mediumship (in which sometimes they claim to be "psychic mediums", channeling spirits, the spirits themselves, or seances and if not then if there is a psionic energy that exclusive to the mind, I dont even know if we have energy in the mind. From other brothers and sisters in Christ I see that most are mixed to negative and I just want to cover every angle or some might call me a heretic 


 

To bring people up to speed, Marcus found our article Faith and Gaming:  Mind Powers and pulled Bryan and me into a discussion of many, many posts.

He wants to use some kind of psionic power in fiction, and wants assurance that this is all right to do.  He also seems to get hung up on the more difficult question of whether such powers are or might be real, and if so whether they might be divine gifts, satanic powers, or natural abilities.  He also gets caught up in the definitions of words in Deuteronomy.

He also seems to want to please everyone with his decision.

We've told him that there is no problem using them in his fiction if he is comfortable with them, but if he is not he should avoid using them.

That's probably the gist of things.

--M. J. Young


fratermax
 

Thanks, MJ.

Mike G


mgaines547
 

And in the original articles comment section I've uploaded other articles from the internet ranging from the history of telekenisis to the definitions of the words in Deuteronomy, if anyone want to check it out

Definition of spiritism:

Https://www.gotquestions.org/Spiritism.html

Now my only concern is the supposed connection with the mental powers and mediums (once again spirits are the center of this, not the mind itself) and if psionic energy (which is exclusive to the mind and not the soul so it not spiritual) is real or not


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy Tablet


-------- Original message --------
From: "Chaplain M. J. Young" <chaplm.j.young@...>
Date: 4/10/20 8:14 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io
Subject: Re: [CGG] Continuing from Mental Powera #magic

To bring people up to speed, Marcus found our article Faith and Gaming:  Mind Powers and pulled Bryan and me into a discussion of many, many posts.

He wants to use some kind of psionic power in fiction, and wants assurance that this is all right to do.  He also seems to get hung up on the more difficult question of whether such powers are or might be real, and if so whether they might be divine gifts, satanic powers, or natural abilities.  He also gets caught up in the definitions of words in Deuteronomy.

He also seems to want to please everyone with his decision.

We've told him that there is no problem using them in his fiction if he is comfortable with them, but if he is not he should avoid using them.

That's probably the gist of things.

--M. J. Young


CGG
 

It's been a while since I engaged on the topic in that massive comments thread on the web site. But I have some extra spoons today, so I have some comments. I'm not going to read through to refresh myself on everything, nor do I feel particularly compelled to read any of the many links you provided. I suspect I already know what they have to say. Also, Mark's written another article on the topic that will appear sometime in the next few weeks.

On the topic of terminology: You seem to have gotten hung up on getting precise definitions for terms that have none. You can ask a dozen people what is meant by "sixth sense," and get 15 answers. Some people will refer specifically to intuition or 'gut instinct.' A supposed ability to arrive at a correct conclusion without sufficient facts. Others will interpret it to mean an awareness of supernatural forces, whether those are religiously-neutral spirits (ghosts or other things), demonic forces, or the presence of God. Still others will refer to proprioception—an actual measurable sense that we have for the positions of our own limbs, distinct from our sense of touch. And on and on it goes. 

You'll find the same thing in the cases of many of the other terms you've been investigating. Even something as straightforward-seeming as "sorcery" has a variety of meanings. I'll lob another article back at you: https://anthropology.iresearchnet.com/sorcery/ 
And if you bring that word up here, among fantasy roleplayers, you might get a handful of other definitions: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer." (D&D 5th Edition)

On the topic of whether some kind of 'mental energy' exists. Our brains do consume energy equivalent to about 30 Watts of electricity. I have no idea what the actual electrical capacity of a human brain is—I know that I have experienced times when I burned more calories by thinking very hard, to the point where my extremities started to go numb. Our entire nervous system is, in fact, an electrical-chemical apparatus. 

There are some concepts in certain cultures that suggest that we have a sort of 'life energy' of sorts. Hindus may talk about chakras—energy wells in certain parts of the body. The Shaolin speak of chi, which is some kind of energy that flows through living creatures. Traditional Chinese medicine focuses on balancing the flow of chi to promote good health. I know there are some people that equate these concepts with the electrical energy that exists in our nervous system, and the magnetic field that surrounds our bodies as a result. Various New Age believers borrow the ideas, and combine them with pseudo-scientific concepts, suggesting that the use of magnets or copper bracelets, or whatever someone wants to sell, will confer enhanced physical or spiritual well-being. 

Separating out pre-scientific and spiritually-neutral cultural beliefs from religious traditions from new syncretic religious practice is, in my opinion, all but impossible. I know there are some Christians who consider all of it demonic. Our Universalist brethren may consider much of it useful and valid. I personally fall into the camp of "This is largely nonsense."

You'll always be able to find Christians eager to claim that anything they have no interest in or understanding of is a tool of the Enemy. I occasionally tell the story of a woman at my church who firmly believed that the works of C.S. Lewis, one of the most influential Christian apologists of the 20th century, were the work of the Devil. 

There are thousands of opinions out there, some that may agree or disagree with me. I'm sure there are some members of this very group that will disagree with what I say. Ultimately, neither we nor anyone else are be the arbiters of what is right and true. We can give you our opinions, but the choice about what you're going to do is yours alone. 


fratermax
 

Not sure if part of the message was chopped off.  Who wrote the message below?

Mike. G


On May 1, 2020, at 5:39 PM, CGG <admin@...> wrote:

It's been a while since I engaged on the topic in that massive comments thread on the web site. But I have some extra spoons today, so I have some comments. I'm not going to read through to refresh myself on everything, nor do I feel particularly compelled to read any of the many links you provided. I suspect I already know what they have to say. Also, Mark's written another article on the topic that will appear sometime in the next few weeks.

On the topic of terminology: You seem to have gotten hung up on getting precise definitions for terms that have none. You can ask a dozen people what is meant by "sixth sense," and get 15 answers. Some people will refer specifically to intuition or 'gut instinct.' A supposed ability to arrive at a correct conclusion without sufficient facts. Others will interpret it to mean an awareness of supernatural forces, whether those are religiously-neutral spirits (ghosts or other things), demonic forces, or the presence of God. Still others will refer to proprioception—an actual measurable sense that we have for the positions of our own limbs, distinct from our sense of touch. And on and on it goes. 

You'll find the same thing in the cases of many of the other terms you've been investigating. Even something as straightforward-seeming as "sorcery" has a variety of meanings. I'll lob another article back at you: https://anthropology.iresearchnet.com/sorcery/ 
And if you bring that word up here, among fantasy roleplayers, you might get a handful of other definitions: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer." (D&D 5th Edition)

On the topic of whether some kind of 'mental energy' exists. Our brains do consume energy equivalent to about 30 Watts of electricity. I have no idea what the actual electrical capacity of a human brain is—I know that I have experienced times when I burned more calories by thinking very hard, to the point where my extremities started to go numb. Our entire nervous system is, in fact, an electrical-chemical apparatus. 

There are some concepts in certain cultures that suggest that we have a sort of 'life energy' of sorts. Hindus may talk about chakras—energy wells in certain parts of the body. The Shaolin speak of chi, which is some kind of energy that flows through living creatures. Traditional Chinese medicine focuses on balancing the flow of chi to promote good health. I know there are some people that equate these concepts with the electrical energy that exists in our nervous system, and the magnetic field that surrounds our bodies as a result. Various New Age believers borrow the ideas, and combine them with pseudo-scientific concepts, suggesting that the use of magnets or copper bracelets, or whatever someone wants to sell, will confer enhanced physical or spiritual well-being. 

Separating out pre-scientific and spiritually-neutral cultural beliefs from religious traditions from new syncretic religious practice is, in my opinion, all but impossible. I know there are some Christians who consider all of it demonic. Our Universalist brethren may consider much of it useful and valid. I personally fall into the camp of "This is largely nonsense."

You'll always be able to find Christians eager to claim that anything they have no interest in or understanding of is a tool of the Enemy. I occasionally tell the story of a woman at my church who firmly believed that the works of C.S. Lewis, one of the most influential Christian apologists of the 20th century, were the work of the Devil. 

There are thousands of opinions out there, some that may agree or disagree with me. I'm sure there are some members of this very group that will disagree with what I say. Ultimately, neither we nor anyone else are be the arbiters of what is right and true. We can give you our opinions, but the choice about what you're going to do is yours alone. 


Bryan Ray
 

Whoops! I wrote from the Groups.io page, and I guess I forgot to change profiles. That was me. 



On Friday, May 1, 2020, 04:36:04 PM PDT, fratermax <maxdrach@...> wrote:


Not sure if part of the message was chopped off.  Who wrote the message below?

Mike. G


On May 1, 2020, at 5:39 PM, CGG <admin@...> wrote:

It's been a while since I engaged on the topic in that massive comments thread on the web site. But I have some extra spoons today, so I have some comments. I'm not going to read through to refresh myself on everything, nor do I feel particularly compelled to read any of the many links you provided. I suspect I already know what they have to say. Also, Mark's written another article on the topic that will appear sometime in the next few weeks.

On the topic of terminology: You seem to have gotten hung up on getting precise definitions for terms that have none. You can ask a dozen people what is meant by "sixth sense," and get 15 answers. Some people will refer specifically to intuition or 'gut instinct.' A supposed ability to arrive at a correct conclusion without sufficient facts. Others will interpret it to mean an awareness of supernatural forces, whether those are religiously-neutral spirits (ghosts or other things), demonic forces, or the presence of God. Still others will refer to proprioception—an actual measurable sense that we have for the positions of our own limbs, distinct from our sense of touch. And on and on it goes. 

You'll find the same thing in the cases of many of the other terms you've been investigating. Even something as straightforward-seeming as "sorcery" has a variety of meanings. I'll lob another article back at you: https://anthropology.iresearchnet.com/sorcery/ 
And if you bring that word up here, among fantasy roleplayers, you might get a handful of other definitions: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer." (D&D 5th Edition)

On the topic of whether some kind of 'mental energy' exists. Our brains do consume energy equivalent to about 30 Watts of electricity. I have no idea what the actual electrical capacity of a human brain is—I know that I have experienced times when I burned more calories by thinking very hard, to the point where my extremities started to go numb. Our entire nervous system is, in fact, an electrical-chemical apparatus. 

There are some concepts in certain cultures that suggest that we have a sort of 'life energy' of sorts. Hindus may talk about chakras—energy wells in certain parts of the body. The Shaolin speak of chi, which is some kind of energy that flows through living creatures. Traditional Chinese medicine focuses on balancing the flow of chi to promote good health. I know there are some people that equate these concepts with the electrical energy that exists in our nervous system, and the magnetic field that surrounds our bodies as a result. Various New Age believers borrow the ideas, and combine them with pseudo-scientific concepts, suggesting that the use of magnets or copper bracelets, or whatever someone wants to sell, will confer enhanced physical or spiritual well-being. 

Separating out pre-scientific and spiritually-neutral cultural beliefs from religious traditions from new syncretic religious practice is, in my opinion, all but impossible. I know there are some Christians who consider all of it demonic. Our Universalist brethren may consider much of it useful and valid. I personally fall into the camp of "This is largely nonsense."

You'll always be able to find Christians eager to claim that anything they have no interest in or understanding of is a tool of the Enemy. I occasionally tell the story of a woman at my church who firmly believed that the works of C.S. Lewis, one of the most influential Christian apologists of the 20th century, were the work of the Devil. 

There are thousands of opinions out there, some that may agree or disagree with me. I'm sure there are some members of this very group that will disagree with what I say. Ultimately, neither we nor anyone else are be the arbiters of what is right and true. We can give you our opinions, but the choice about what you're going to do is yours alone. 


fratermax
 

No worries, Bryan.  I had to go back to find out what thread this was.  Maybe I missed some of it.  I did find MJ's summary at some point.  I think the original poster was Marcus?  If so...

Marcus,
Where are you with this currently?  
Did you get whatever information or point of view you were seeking?    
How do you feel about the topic?  
Do you still have concerns?  
Which conclusion did you reach, if any?  
I'm curious.  

Mike G   

>Whoops! I wrote from the Groups.io page, and I guess I forgot to change profiles. That was me. 

>>Not sure if part of the message was chopped off.  Who wrote the message below?



mgaines547
 

Well I have more info and questions currently on the Mental powers article, if you wanna comment or check out the ENTIRETY of the conversation 


On May 2, 2020, at 1:06 PM, fratermax <maxdrach@...> wrote:


No worries, Bryan.  I had to go back to find out what thread this was.  Maybe I missed some of it.  I did find MJ's summary at some point.  I think the original poster was Marcus?  If so...

Marcus,
Where are you with this currently?  
Did you get whatever information or point of view you were seeking?    
How do you feel about the topic?  
Do you still have concerns?  
Which conclusion did you reach, if any?  
I'm curious.  

Mike G   

>Whoops! I wrote from the Groups.io page, and I guess I forgot to change profiles. That was me. 

>>Not sure if part of the message was chopped off.  Who wrote the message below?



 

Mike, I suspect that what Markus means by "the ENTIRETY of the conversation" is that you should go to the old Faith and Gaming article and read all of the now between eighty and ninety comments of which half are his.  I recommend you not undertake that unless you are suffering from insomnia--many of them are repetitive, it's packed with links to articles whose contribution to the discussion he overrates, and I'm sure Bryan and I are still recovering from our headaches and frustrations, that we will answer something and he will ask it again without reference to the answer already given.  Markus is obviously frustrated with this.

Markus, I think you're looking for something you can't possibly get.  You want to be able to say unequivocally that no Christian thinks psionic abilities in a fictional setting would be heretical.  I'm not sure you would find that in this relatively small group of believers who support fantasy and science fiction generally.  There are genuine Christians out there who think that tongues and healing are heretical, and equally genuine Christians who think that the denial of those gifts is heretical.  Some think it heretical to believe you can lose your salvation, and others that it is heretical to believe you can't.  There are a lot of good believers who think you can't be saved if you weren't immersed in water on confession of faith, but probably more who believe that the fact that someone dripped a few drops on their head when they were a few days old and their parents promised to raise them in the faith is sufficient.  Everything anyone believes is thought to be heretical by someone.  Most people here would accept C. S. Lewis as one of the greatest Christian apologists of the twentieth century, but there are not a few believers out there who think several of his books heretical.

Ultimately the only question that matters is whether you are comfortable with the notion of psionics potentially being a gift of God or not.  If you are, you will find it easy enough to explain why when it matters.  If not, you should probably give up trying to get approval from someone else, because your conscience will never by clean if you do something against your own beliefs.

I hope that helps.

--M. J. Young


fratermax
 

Oof.  Not sure what I stumbled on.

My questions were only designed to see where Marcus was at present (if he still needed anything or if he had received the info that he was seeking).  

Marcus, I think MJ's words are wise, if he summed the situation up correctly.  There are many Christian interpretations of psionics and such.  You need not find an orthodox stance (if one even exists) to write fiction.  I think if you are really clear on your purpose, it should help you to decide what is acceptable.  For example, I would be fairly conservative or at least cautious if I were writing a story to bring Christian ideas to the public, but if I were simply writing fiction for my gaming friends, I would not worry much about whether some Christians might see an idea as heretical.  I think that MJ already essentially wrote that though so I'll just stop here.       

Best of luck to you in any case.
  
Mike G 


  


From: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io> on behalf of Chaplain M. J. Young <chaplm.j.young@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CGG] Continuing from Mental Powera #magic #psionics
 
Mike, I suspect that what Markus means by "the ENTIRETY of the conversation" is that you should go to the old Faith and Gaming article and read all of the now between eighty and ninety comments of which half are his.  I recommend you not undertake that unless you are suffering from insomnia--many of them are repetitive, it's packed with links to articles whose contribution to the discussion he overrates, and I'm sure Bryan and I are still recovering from our headaches and frustrations, that we will answer something and he will ask it again without reference to the answer already given.  Markus is obviously frustrated with this.

Markus, I think you're looking for something you can't possibly get.  You want to be able to say unequivocally that no Christian thinks psionic abilities in a fictional setting would be heretical.  I'm not sure you would find that in this relatively small group of believers who support fantasy and science fiction generally.  There are genuine Christians out there who think that tongues and healing are heretical, and equally genuine Christians who think that the denial of those gifts is heretical.  Some think it heretical to believe you can lose your salvation, and others that it is heretical to believe you can't.  There are a lot of good believers who think you can't be saved if you weren't immersed in water on confession of faith, but probably more who believe that the fact that someone dripped a few drops on their head when they were a few days old and their parents promised to raise them in the faith is sufficient.  Everything anyone believes is thought to be heretical by someone.  Most people here would accept C. S. Lewis as one of the greatest Christian apologists of the twentieth century, but there are not a few believers out there who think several of his books heretical.

Ultimately the only question that matters is whether you are comfortable with the notion of psionics potentially being a gift of God or not.  If you are, you will find it easy enough to explain why when it matters.  If not, you should probably give up trying to get approval from someone else, because your conscience will never by clean if you do something against your own beliefs.

I hope that helps.

--M. J. Young


mgaines547
 


Would this be a accurate discription if the occult?


On May 2, 2020, at 9:51 PM, fratermax <maxdrach@...> wrote:


Oof.  Not sure what I stumbled on.

My questions were only designed to see where Marcus was at present (if he still needed anything or if he had received the info that he was seeking).  

Marcus, I think MJ's words are wise, if he summed the situation up correctly.  There are many Christian interpretations of psionics and such.  You need not find an orthodox stance (if one even exists) to write fiction.  I think if you are really clear on your purpose, it should help you to decide what is acceptable.  For example, I would be fairly conservative or at least cautious if I were writing a story to bring Christian ideas to the public, but if I were simply writing fiction for my gaming friends, I would not worry much about whether some Christians might see an idea as heretical.  I think that MJ already essentially wrote that though so I'll just stop here.       

Best of luck to you in any case.
  
Mike G 


  


From: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io> on behalf of Chaplain M. J. Young <chaplm.j.young@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CGG] Continuing from Mental Powera #magic #psionics
 
Mike, I suspect that what Markus means by "the ENTIRETY of the conversation" is that you should go to the old Faith and Gaming article and read all of the now between eighty and ninety comments of which half are his.  I recommend you not undertake that unless you are suffering from insomnia--many of them are repetitive, it's packed with links to articles whose contribution to the discussion he overrates, and I'm sure Bryan and I are still recovering from our headaches and frustrations, that we will answer something and he will ask it again without reference to the answer already given.  Markus is obviously frustrated with this.

Markus, I think you're looking for something you can't possibly get.  You want to be able to say unequivocally that no Christian thinks psionic abilities in a fictional setting would be heretical.  I'm not sure you would find that in this relatively small group of believers who support fantasy and science fiction generally.  There are genuine Christians out there who think that tongues and healing are heretical, and equally genuine Christians who think that the denial of those gifts is heretical.  Some think it heretical to believe you can lose your salvation, and others that it is heretical to believe you can't.  There are a lot of good believers who think you can't be saved if you weren't immersed in water on confession of faith, but probably more who believe that the fact that someone dripped a few drops on their head when they were a few days old and their parents promised to raise them in the faith is sufficient.  Everything anyone believes is thought to be heretical by someone.  Most people here would accept C. S. Lewis as one of the greatest Christian apologists of the twentieth century, but there are not a few believers out there who think several of his books heretical.

Ultimately the only question that matters is whether you are comfortable with the notion of psionics potentially being a gift of God or not.  If you are, you will find it easy enough to explain why when it matters.  If not, you should probably give up trying to get approval from someone else, because your conscience will never by clean if you do something against your own beliefs.

I hope that helps.

--M. J. Young


 

Markus provided a list of subtopics with the question, "Would this be a[n] accurate discription [sic] if [sic] the occult?"

I am not going to bother reading the list, because I think it a foolish quest.  My accurate description/definition of "The Occult" is "Anything and everything the particular speaker regards as mystical or magical in some some way that opposes it to powers of light, truth, and openness."

Markus, you aren't going to find the Pharisaic answer you want:  there is no law here.  There is only whether you are using something to glorify God or not.

--M. J. Young


fratermax
 

MJ, 

Even if you said 'yes' (or 'no'), how would that help him?  

I'm not sure that he knows what he wants.   

Mike 



From: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io> on behalf of Chaplain M. J. Young <chaplm.j.young@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CGG] Continuing from Mental Powera #magic #psionics
 
Markus provided a list of subtopics with the question, "Would this be a[n] accurate discription [sic] if [sic] the occult?"

I am not going to bother reading the list, because I think it a foolish quest.  My accurate description/definition of "The Occult" is "Anything and everything the particular speaker regards as mystical or magical in some some way that opposes it to powers of light, truth, and openness."

Markus, you aren't going to find the Pharisaic answer you want:  there is no law here.  There is only whether you are using something to glorify God or not.

--M. J. Young


mgaines547
 

I do have two more questions: Can Gods gift be genetic? I’m also making these powers genetic along with divine intervention cause there are actually beneficial mutations but they are temporary as most mutations are neutral or negative, others corrupt this idea as evidence for Evolution (which actually has a pagan root than a scientific one) and sadly the writers in Marvel make the X-Men x gene something as a evidence piece for Evolution (but once again they mix EVERYSINGLE BELIEF in thier company so it’s very mixed)

And in the Magic article I found something in Compelling Teuth that Noetic (mind) science is actually something similar to Gnostic belief, what is that?


Eric VanDenhende
 


On May 27, 2020 at 1:56 AM mgaines547 <mgaines547@...> wrote:

I do have two more questions:  Can Gods gift be genetic? I’m also making these powers genetic along with divine intervention cause there are actually beneficial mutations but they are temporary as most mutations are neutral or negative, others corrupt this idea as evidence for Evolution (which actually has a pagan root than a scientific one) and sadly the writers in Marvel make the X-Men x gene something as a evidence piece for Evolution (but once again they mix EVERYSINGLE BELIEF in thier company so it’s very mixed)
Here's the exact opposite line of thought for you:
God created man in perfection.  Man sinned and fell from grace and was cursed.  The curse includes the no longer perfect replication of DNA.  It can only get worse, not better.  It was perfect at the start, but as it breaks over the generations it only leads to more and more imperfections.  It doesn't get better in transmission, only worse.

From a game perspective, perhaps you could have an miraculous fixing of the DNA through an encounter with God or perhaps an Angel.


And in the Magic article I found something in Compelling Teuth that Noetic (mind) science is actually something similar to Gnostic belief, what is that?


 

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:56 PM, mgaines547 wrote:
Can Gods gift be genetic?
It seems to me to be a silly question.

If I have a deep resonant voice, is that genetic?  Is it a gift of God?  Is there a difference?

Well, I was going to give other examples, but this will suffice.  The good gifts we have are from God; many of them are genetic.  There are also spiritual gifts; I don't take these to be genetic.

I get a bit confused, though, when you add, "but they are temporary".  I would take a genetic gift to be something with which the individual is born and which is part of his makeup until death.  I can imagine some trait that expresses itself sporadically, but it's always there in the genome.  You seem to be suggesting that God could change someone's genome so that he has this power, and then change it back so that he no longer does.  I certainly would agree that God could do that--but it seems a really difficult way to go about it, and I can't think why He would.

Besides, "The gifts and the callings of God are irrevocable," and while you could ignore that, I'm inclined to think that once God gives the gift, it's given.  You could have some aspect in which the person has to pray to use the gift, and so be empowered temporarily, but the idea of God giving a gift and taking it away seems wrong to me.  The only example I can recall is Samson, and God gave it back when Samson asked.

On a different subject, "Gnostic belief, what is that?"

Gnosticism is a complex collection of beliefs that share in common the notion that there is a real spirit world of good and perfect objects and beings and a corrupt material world, usually in which some spirits are trapped.  To escape the material world you have to obtain special knowledge, usually provided by those already educated in the cult.  There were many varieties of these beliefs (which come from Platonism), quite a few of which attempted to re-explain Christian faith in these terms.

I know considerably less about Noetic science, and don't know how that relates to Gnosticism.

I hope this helps.

--M. J. Young


mgaines547
 

What I was talking about “they are temporary” I meant mutations in real life that they are either neutral or bad but there are NEVER good, I wanted my story characters to have genetic powers from God as an example that He gives us good things then later scientists would temper with Gods creation to make something different but it’s strayed from Gods path, like in real life in a way through a metaphor 


On May 27, 2020, at 5:53 AM, Chaplain M. J. Young <chaplm.j.young@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:56 PM, mgaines547 wrote:
Can Gods gift be genetic?
It seems to me to be a silly question.

If I have a deep resonant voice, is that genetic?  Is it a gift of God?  Is there a difference?

Well, I was going to give other examples, but this will suffice.  The good gifts we have are from God; many of them are genetic.  There are also spiritual gifts; I don't take these to be genetic.

I get a bit confused, though, when you add, "but they are temporary".  I would take a genetic gift to be something with which the individual is born and which is part of his makeup until death.  I can imagine some trait that expresses itself sporadically, but it's always there in the genome.  You seem to be suggesting that God could change someone's genome so that he has this power, and then change it back so that he no longer does.  I certainly would agree that God could do that--but it seems a really difficult way to go about it, and I can't think why He would.

Besides, "The gifts and the callings of God are irrevocable," and while you could ignore that, I'm inclined to think that once God gives the gift, it's given.  You could have some aspect in which the person has to pray to use the gift, and so be empowered temporarily, but the idea of God giving a gift and taking it away seems wrong to me.  The only example I can recall is Samson, and God gave it back when Samson asked.

On a different subject, "Gnostic belief, what is that?"

Gnosticism is a complex collection of beliefs that share in common the notion that there is a real spirit world of good and perfect objects and beings and a corrupt material world, usually in which some spirits are trapped.  To escape the material world you have to obtain special knowledge, usually provided by those already educated in the cult.  There were many varieties of these beliefs (which come from Platonism), quite a few of which attempted to re-explain Christian faith in these terms.

I know considerably less about Noetic science, and don't know how that relates to Gnosticism.

I hope this helps.

--M. J. Young


mgaines547
 

And for research reasons I got the article from Compelling Truth so you could see: 

”According to the Institute of Noetic Sciences noetic science studies “how beliefs, thoughts, and intentions affect the physical world.” The noetic scientists believe that while traditional science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation, there is another way of obtaining knowledge — the subjective or internal, including gut feelings, intuition, and hunches. This includes experiences that cannot be explained or proven “rationally” but are felt to be absolutely real. Noetic science attempts to apply a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.

Noetic (from the Greek word meaning “mental”) science has been equated with parapsychology, metaphysical philosophy, and New Age thought. It is an attempt to establish a connection between the human mind and the physical universe. It attempts to discover the power and source of human intelligence, including how thoughts cause physical effects.

Noetic science delves into the areas of telepathy, telekinesis, precognition, and self-healing. In spite of the exhaustive studies into these areas, where they have been found to be unscientific at best and outright fiction at worst, people continue to seek knowledge through them. This is little more than the ancient practice of Gnosticism, which is seeking a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence.

Mankind has always attempted to gain knowledge outside that which God has provided through His Word. The Apostle Paul warned that the preaching of the Word would not be sufficient for those who seek to gain knowledge through superstition. “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths” (2 Timothy 4:3–4). Teachers of extra-biblical revelations will always be with us. Noetic “scientists” prove that to be true.

The Christian worldview is one based on the truths of the Word of God, “the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 3:15). In His Word, God has given us all we need so that we “may be complete, equipped for every good work ” (2 Timothy 3:17). As such, there is no need for Christians to involve themselves, or give credibility to, any metaphysical pseudoscience, including noetics.”


fratermax
 

I get confused every time we get an e-mail like the one at the bottom.  It's certainly an interesting topic so I do not mind that the author posted it.  

However,

(1) Who are you?  Sign your posts please.  

(2) Don't take this too harshly (e-mail can be a terrible medium. I'm in a good mood), but your point is not clear at all.  
Are you asking something?      
Are you putting forth a new idea?
If either of the above, please remind people what it is.  You may have mentioned it in your last post three weeks ago, but people probably do not remember it.  You may have been working on this stuff everyday, but others have not.   
It looks like you just pasted a bunch of info here.
Actually, it looks like you're arguing with yourself or some unknown entity.    
My eyes glaze over after three lines because there is no context.    
Please have a conversation with the other Guild members, and you're likely to get more responses.  

How your post seems to those that are reading this for the first time:  

------------------

And I did research that shows:  

From the Journal of Crypto-Culinary Etymology:  According to traditional occidental palettes, the saltiness of certain desserts combines nicely with the sweetness of certain fruits.  

The Webster's definition of fruit is:  "The ripened ovary or ovaries of a seed-bearing plant, together with some accessory parts containing the seeds and occurring in a wide variety of forms."   

Crypto comes from the ancient Greek word kruptos, which means hidden or secret.
Culinary comes from the Latin noun culina (kitchen) and the ancient latin adjective culinarius (related to a kitchen).

Since ancient times, people have had a tendency to mix salty foods with sweet ones.  Here are a list of civilizations that have done so:  
Egyptian
Neo-Babylonian
Dorian
Assyrian
Hittite
Persian
Roman 
Aztec
Mayan
Inuit

Does this list look complete?  
 
---------------

For the love of God, who cares?

What on earth is your point?  

If you are indeed arguing, then with whom?  

If you are trying to convince someone else of something and would like some feedback and possible support, then please say so clearly and provide context.  I'm sure many would like to help.   

For example, I have some interest in gnosticism.  I think you painted with far too broad a brush, though I do see some connections between gnosticism and the occult practices that you mention.  I have no desire to chime in though because I have no clue what you want.  In fact,. every time I get one of these I think that something went wrong with my e-mail program and I'm somehow getting every fourth e-mail post.  I t would be funny if I wrote all that and this were indeed the case!

Doh!


Mike G 



From: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io> on behalf of mgaines547 <mgaines547@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:16 PM
To: main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io <main@Christian-Gamers-Guild.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CGG] Continuing from Mental Powera #magic #psionics
 
And for research reasons I got the article from Compelling Truth so you could see: 

”According to the Institute of Noetic Sciences noetic science studies “how beliefs, thoughts, and intentions affect the physical world.” The noetic scientists believe that while traditional science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation, there is another way of obtaining knowledge — the subjective or internal, including gut feelings, intuition, and hunches. This includes experiences that cannot be explained or proven “rationally” but are felt to be absolutely real. Noetic science attempts to apply a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.

Noetic (from the Greek word meaning “mental”) science has been equated with parapsychology, metaphysical philosophy, and New Age thought. It is an attempt to establish a connection between the human mind and the physical universe. It attempts to discover the power and source of human intelligence, including how thoughts cause physical effects.

Noetic science delves into the areas of telepathy, telekinesis, precognition, and self-healing. In spite of the exhaustive studies into these areas, where they have been found to be unscientific at best and outright fiction at worst, people continue to seek knowledge through them. This is little more than the ancient practice of Gnosticism, which is seeking a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence.

Mankind has always attempted to gain knowledge outside that which God has provided through His Word. The Apostle Paul warned that the preaching of the Word would not be sufficient for those who seek to gain knowledge through superstition. “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths” (2 Timothy 4:3–4). Teachers of extra-biblical revelations will always be with us. Noetic “scientists” prove that to be true.

The Christian worldview is one based on the truths of the Word of God, “the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 3:15). In His Word, God has given us all we need so that we “may be complete, equipped for every good work ” (2 Timothy 3:17). As such, there is no need for Christians to involve themselves, or give credibility to, any metaphysical pseudoscience, including noetics.”

_._,_._,_